tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post186699185968517760..comments2024-03-22T15:15:09.943-04:00Comments on Lionel Deimel’s Web Log: Let’s You and Him FightLionel Deimelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-54748787735536821722011-08-20T15:12:43.271-04:002011-08-20T15:12:43.271-04:00Lionel
FYI
I don't have any one person in mi...Lionel<br /><br />FYI<br /><br />I don't have any one person in mind as to your reference to the paragraph concerning TEC-Pgh conservatives being candidates in your upcoming episcopal election. I do note that Simons, Shoucair Robison, Murph and Geisler are neither members of the Nominating Cmte nor the Transition Cmte making them all possible candidates.The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-8861371735034331642011-08-20T11:10:33.218-04:002011-08-20T11:10:33.218-04:00Indeed, Lionel. One tactic to note, and I think yo...Indeed, Lionel. One tactic to note, and I think you have noted thatit appears in some of the current or recently past rhetoric, is for the intolerant on the "losing" side to attempt to cloak themselves in the garments of righteous martyrdom and persecution. It is not "persecution" simply to be disagreed with -- or to be reminded that property is held in trust for the church that perdures through time, not for the incumbent congregation.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-67404183796388178632011-08-20T10:51:15.965-04:002011-08-20T10:51:15.965-04:00Tobias, I think we have no disagreement. It is axi...Tobias, I think we have no disagreement. It is axiomatic, however, that the tolerant cannot afford to tolerate the intolerant.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-48231174067459828842011-08-20T10:28:29.305-04:002011-08-20T10:28:29.305-04:00Lionel, it seems to me that part of this comes dow...Lionel, it seems to me that part of this comes down to the difference between those fiercely committed to their own ideology (whether of the left or the right) and those content to live with difference. Some people cannot live with ambiguity or difference, others can. There is an almost osmotic drive forcing such people into sects of one sort or another, unless there can be some overriding unity to which all of them are willing to consent. The church has been splitting and rejoining from the time of Peter and Paul, as "the latest issues" seem so pressing. Some conservatives are willing to see that holding on is a better strategy in the long run, while others will seek a level of "purity" of belief. It is all in process... and yes, it ends up being decided in the assemblies of the church. My appeal to my progressive friends is to work against triumphalism and and equally intolerant "my way or the highway" -- in so far as that can be done. Ultimately one cannot tolerate the completely intolerant or "purist" -- they will, by osmosis, find their way out of the system into one of their own. But there should be plenty of room for traditional Anglicans who are willing to remain within the system and participate in it even if they do not prevail in the decisions of the G.C.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-63208067024487305492011-08-19T21:57:49.240-04:002011-08-19T21:57:49.240-04:00Jim, Bishop Iker was Bishop of Fort Worth. Bishop ...Jim, Bishop Iker was Bishop of Fort Worth. Bishop Stanton is Bishop of Dallas.<br /><br />We have a democratically governed church. Being in a minority has its down side. Implementing the will of the majority is not, <i>ipso facto</i>, persecution of the minority.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-79686854939191664522011-08-19T21:41:30.039-04:002011-08-19T21:41:30.039-04:00Some years ago a dear friend was sent by then bish...Some years ago a dear friend was sent by then bishop of Chicago Griswald to a conference in California. The subject was, "Reconciliation." About half way through the first day, an attendee from the then Iker led diocese of Dallas (I think he said it was) stood and berated the participants. He said that conservatives know what "reconciliation" and "conversation" mean. They mean progressives do whatever they want and let conservatives talk about it.<br /><br />My friend returned to Chicago shaken by that speech. First he wondered if the speaker had a point? Do progressives simply ignore conservative complaints? Second if that is how conservatives view reconciliation how can we ever advance from conflict? <br /><br />My experience over the last few years is that conservatives do believe something like the speaker's rant. Unfortunately that has led me to trust a lot less. <br /><br />Sad is it not?<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-41666253422167184762011-08-19T17:05:03.805-04:002011-08-19T17:05:03.805-04:00It seems to me that it is the preaching of the Gos...It seems to me that it is the preaching of the Gospel in its pure form that has led to what some are calling "revisionism." That's what happened when Jesus first brought his message, and we should not be surprised to see similar things happen now.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-28995166978567066952011-08-19T16:07:37.076-04:002011-08-19T16:07:37.076-04:00"The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" per..."The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" period end of sentance. There is no room for deciding who may or maynot be an Episcopalian.<br /><br />so, add the phrase "All of You" to the church mottoHSWyatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09898070996719459573noreply@blogger.com