tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post7430755445642515529..comments2024-03-22T15:15:09.943-04:00Comments on Lionel Deimel’s Web Log: More Thoughts on the Collect for Trinity SundayLionel Deimelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-29702444224125822592013-05-27T23:28:57.480-04:002013-05-27T23:28:57.480-04:00If you are delivering a collect in church, of cour...If you are delivering a collect in church, of course, you have all the time in the world to figure out the syntax, and you will read it with the proper structure in mind. Commas can be used to indicate pauses, but their more important function is to disambiguate sentence structure, a fact that many people overlook.<br /><br />In the end, I am more upset by the obscurity of the meaning than I am by the unhelpful punctuation of the collect. What does “in the power of your divine Majesty to worship the Unity” mean? What unity? For that matter, what does “in the power of your divine Majesty” mean? Normal people don’t talk that way. Perhaps they did in the 16th century, and maybe Cranmer know what he was saying. I certainly don’t.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-69920630093099220502013-05-27T22:43:04.026-04:002013-05-27T22:43:04.026-04:00Sorry, Lionel, but your extra commas make the flow...Sorry, Lionel, but your extra commas make the flow of the words choppy, and your rearrangement does so even more. The collects are written first and foremost to be spoken. Were I writing a technical work I would punctuate the way you suggest, but this collect is more poetry than it is a design specification for the Holy Trinity. On the other hand, I don't really have any trouble understanding the syntax of the collect as it is (or as it is in Rite I either, as the case may be for some of us), but then that may be because I have heard it once a year since I was a child.<br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3320087.post-40436768730672269252013-05-27T18:51:10.738-04:002013-05-27T18:51:10.738-04:00Hi Lionel,
I think there is much work to be done ...Hi Lionel,<br /><br />I think there is much work to be done on the collects. Adopting the RCL without new collects leaves a fair number talking about things not read.<br /><br />In the case of this one, a deacon at our church once observed, in a sermon, that the priests do not like to talk about Trinitarian doctrine. He then noted that he .s preaching his 7th straight!" That may be a record.<br /><br />Any road, if I were a new person wandering into a church and hearing that collect, I should have no idea what the celebrant was talking about. The standing committee on liturgy and worship has other fish to fry at the moment, including new marriage and blessing of civil union liturgies, and a badly needed revision of the prayerbook. <br /><br />Alas!!<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.com